Mark K. Updegrove, Author of Baptism by Fire: Eight Presidents Who Took Office in Times of Crisis

June 3, 2009 | Leave a Comment

Dr. Kent: Welcome back to Sound Authors. My next guest on the show is Mark K. Updegrove, and his book came out on St. Martin’s Press in January, and it’s called Baptism by Fire: Eight Presidents Who Took Office In Times of Crisis. And that really couldn’t be a better title for right now, Baptism by Fire. So hopefully we’ll talk a little bit about our current president. Welcome to the show, Mark Updegrove.

Mark K. Updegrove: Well, thanks so much for having me.

Dr. Kent: So tell me about this, I was just watching in the news Obama meeting the foreign heads of state, and it’s a great place to start talking about your book Baptism by Fire. Has he been baptized?

Mark K. Updegrove: Well, yeah, I think on day one. Yeah, he came in, like the presidents I covered, into a time of unprecedented crisis, and I think he’s been immersed in the task at hand ever since. This is not a quiet time. But the good news for Obama is that times like this require great leadership, and he has an opportunity to make for himself a great place in history if he succeeds in combating the formidable challenge that he faces.

Dr. Kent: Tell me about your book. Eight presidents – which eight presidents took office in times of crisis?

Mark K. Updegrove: Well, it’s George Washington, number one, Washington was of course our first president and had to contend with, really the presidency itself had never been filled by any man. He had to sort of define what that role meant and preside over a very fragile, fledgling nation. I think he did an admirable job of it. The second was Thomas Jefferson, who was the first president to sit in the white house, went when there was a two-party split, a two-party schism in the country. It was probably the most contentious election, between him and the candidate for the Republicans, and John Adams, the candidate for the Federalist Party, in the history of this country, far worse than any election we’ve seen since, in my opinion. The third is John Tyler, who was the first Vice President to assume the presidency upon the death of an incumbent, which he did 30 days into the tenure of William Henry Harrison, who died of pneumonia. So the constitution was relatively ambiguous on what that meant. Was Tyler the actual President, or sort of the acting President, or a surrogate? And he had to sort of define what that meant. Abraham Lincoln for obvious reasons, presiding over the country at the outbreak of civil war. Franklin Roosevelt for other reasons that are, I think, pretty obvious. He took office during the depths of the Great Depression. Harry Truman, who assumed office after the death of Roosevelt in the end of the second World War. John F. Kennedy, who took office at the height of the Cold War, and Gerald Ford, who was the first President not to be elected by the national electorate, but rather to be appointed by the 25th amendment to the constitution. So those are the eight.

Dr. Kent: What propelled you towards thinking about the Presidents in this way? It’s fascinating, how did you get started with this notion?

Mark K. Updegrove: You know, I assumed that our 44th President, I didn’t know that it would be Barrack Obama at the time, would be himself faced, or herself faced, because Hillary Clinton was running at the time as well, faced with unprecedented crises. We were in unfinished wars, almost quagmires in Iraq and Afghanistan. The economy was starting to founder a bit, and our stature abroad was at a low point during the George W. Bush years. So those were definitely going to be crises that the 44th President would have to address. I didn’t anticipate that the economic crisis would become as heightened as it’s been, so that’s clearly the number one thing, the number one challenge on the plate of Barrack Obama.

Dr. Kent: Talk for a second about your personal interest in presidents. Fun facts about presidents can kind of be the life of any party, there’s no question. But how did you start with your research on presidents?

Mark K. Updegrove: I’ve always been fascinated in the presidency. When I was at Time Magazine I got to know a couple of them. I got to know Gerald Ford pretty well, and the elder George Bush. I’d met Clinton, met Carter, and I wrote my first book based on a story which I don’t think has been told until my book, which is the notion of what a President does after he leaves office. I don’t think that those stories have been told, and they’re fascinating human dramas, about what you do after you leave the most powerful position in the world. Where you go from there? So I began to write Second Acts, based on that premise. And Second Acts covered the lives of nine presidents after they left office, from Harry Truman through Bill Clinton. And each of those stories is really different, and I think is as revealing of the character of those men, as anything that they did in office, in many respects. So again, I think that they’re sort of inherently interesting human dramas as well. It’s something that we can all relate to when we’re going through transitions in our own life.

Dr. Kent: Actually, can you speak as the author of Second Acts: Presidential Lives and Legacies after the White House, you know I have to ask you about George Bush and his legacy right now. People are talking about ok, now he’s writing his book, but his wife is the one who got the big contract for books. What’s your take on his legacy?

Mark K. Updegrove: Well, it’s a good question, and one that I don’t think can be answered until we see the forest for the trees. We need a little perspective on the George W. Bush years. I can say this, I don’t think it looks particularly good, regardless of whether we get some objectivity in looking at the George W. Bush years. I think a lot of his legacy stakes on what happens in Iraq and Afghanistan to a lesser extent, and the culpability that we can assign to him around the financial crisis. Again, I think we’re going to need a little objectivity on all those things. But even if it comes out better than we think at this point, I still don’t think that history is going to look favorably upon him. It might mitigate what we think of Bush right now, but I don’t think his will be looked at favorably. I don’t think there are many listeners who would probably disagree with that.

Dr. Kent: How about, for example, Bill Clinton, who kind of left office in a hailstorm, but now is still beloved in a lot of ways. Do presidents sort of change personality and change tactics once they get out of office?

Mark K. Updegrove: Not that they chance necessarily, but I think our appreciation for them normally gets greater. I’ll give you an example of that. Harry Truman was a president who left with a very unfavorable rating among the public. I think his approval rating was about 31%. He was thought to be, by and large, a failed president by many Americans. But about ten years later, when historians were assessing his legacy, they realized that he was a near great president, or maybe some might consider him a great president. There are very few historians who would have rendered that same assessment a week or two after he left office. So again, with objectivity we began to appreciate the trials that Harry Truman went through and the character it took to make some of the tough decisions of his presidency. Now, Richard Nixon is another is another story. Nixon left (inaudible), with the state of Watergate on his hands and went into exile for a period of about four years, but after that time he realized I want to get out there in the world, I want to do something for my country in the area that I’ve most been inspired by as a public servant. And that is foreign policy. And despite this virulent opinion that folks had of him at that time, he got back into the arena and remarkably made a difference in the area of foreign policy. So like Nixon or not, you have to respect the fact that he went out there and really tried to do something for his country. And when he was buried 20 years after leaving the White House in disgrace, in 1994, he was remembered as much as an elder statesman, or a respected statesman, as he was a former president.

Dr. Kent: That’s very true. Ok, let’s get back to your book, Baptism by Fire. I’m so intrigued by this, because never until now have I sort of observed how, you step into the office on January 20th, and everyone was on Obama’s side this year. I heard people left and right and everywhere supporting him, and all of a sudden it was just everything hit the fan, and he was off to the races. And of course people are saying oh, he’s doing too much, speak to how Obama’s done this past couple months.

Mark K. Updegrove: I think he’s done pretty well on balance. I just read an Op Ed tease on this, but I think the one thing I like about Obama is, you hear the nickname No Drama Obama in his campaign, and his equanimity, that utter coolness that he showed in the campaign is going to help him enormously in his role as president, particularly given the times he faces. So I think on balance he struck the right message. We saw him do that sort of marathon race through the media, the very fragmented media world, sounding his message, which I think struck the right balance between pragmatism and hope. He is not the ebullient cheerleader that FDR was, but I do think he’s staved off panic at a time when people are deeply concerned about the economy and our future. So I think he’s done a really admirable job, and I think the other thing you have to look at is, how has he done in translating the popularity that you talked about into and acting in his agenda? And he’s gotten this gargantuan stimulus package through Congress. And that’s no mean feat given its proportions and its implications. He’s also slipped health care reform in there, something no president has even tried since Clinton attempted it back in 1993 in his rookie year in the presidency, and that was something that failed miserably. I think if you look at how he did in the G20 summit this week, I think he plays very well on the foreign stage. You could see foreign leaders trying to cozy up to Obama for photo ops, given his enormous popularity, and I think he can help to darn the holes in America’s tattered reputation abroad in the wake of the device of George W. Bush years. At the same time, many foreign countries aren’t stepping up to the plate as far as stimulus goes, something the President very much wanted. So it remains to be seen if he can translate his influence abroad into getting their buy-in on what we can do together to solve this global financial crisis.

Dr. Kent: Well, it’s been such a pleasure chatting with you. Tell us what your next project is.

Mark K. Updegrove: You know, I don’t know yet, I’m still thinking about some things. I started a novel, which I’ve been toying with in the last couple of years. But I would like to continue to focus on the presidency, and in particular I’d like to continue this conversation in book form, in the sense that I’d like to cover Obama’s years in the presidency, because as we both know he has these formidable challenges, and I think that’ll make a fascinating book.

Dr. Kent: Absolutely. Here’s a good question for you, as someone who works with authors all the time, and this and that, I can’t read a book in the same way, I see all the flaws, and this and that. And musicians, once they do a ton of music, they can’t listen to music in the same way. Are you the same way with the presidency?

Mark K. Updegrove: You know, it’s such a vast subject that I find it continually fascinating. To your point, I see the flaws in certain books, and what I’m very conscious of as a historian is getting it right, because I know that other historians will be looking at my book, formulating their own opinions based on it and others. So I think you put pressure on yourself of being accurate, and for being fair in your assessments of the presidencies and the men you’re covering. But I think I’ll continue to be interested in reading what other people say about the presidency, and I think the balanced historians do a pretty good job.

Dr. Kent: Did you put your hat in the ring to be an advisor to the new president?

Mark K. Updegrove: I would be honored to serve at the pleasure of the President if the phone rang. I did send him a copy of my book, and I know that George W. Bush read my last book, Second Acts, and was kind enough to send me a hand-written letter, but I have not heard from Obama, but assuredly if he asked me for my advice, I will do anything I can to help him succeed, I know we all would.

Dr. Kent: And I think he would appreciate the title of the book and the premise. I guarantee that he feels the concept the Baptism by Fire going on.

Mark K. Updegrove: No question about it.

Dr. Kent: Well, it’s been such a pleasure chatting with Mark K. Updegrove, and he’s the author of Baptism by Fire. Thank you so much.

Mark K. Updegrove: Thank you so much for having me.

Dr. Kent: My next guest on the show will be Mark David Gerson, and we’ll talk to him in just a minute.

Posted by admin | Filed Under History, TRANSCRIPTS, Politics, AUTHOR INTERVIEW, PODCAST

Karen Brody | Birth Activist

April 5, 2009 | Leave a Comment

Interview with Karen Brody | Author of Birth [18:48m]: Play Now | Play in Popup | Download

I talked with Karen Brody about her successful play and brand new book BIRTH. Fascinating discussion about a topic that people don’t broach often enough! More from Karen Brody’s website:

Hailed “The Vagina Monologues for birth” by renowned women’s health expert Dr. Christiane Northrup, Birth is a documentary-style play based on over one hundred interviews playwright Karen Brody conducted with mothers across America. It tells the true birth stories of eight women painting an intimate portrait of how low-risk, educated women are giving birth today.

Since 2006 the play been performed around the world as part of BOLD, a global movement using the Arts to inspire communities to improve childbirth choices and put mothers at the center of their birth experiences.

This special edition of the book includes the entire play, playwright’s introduction and reflections,and the impact the play has had on BOLD communities. It also includes a foreword by Christiane Northrup, MD, FACOG, author of The Wisdom of Menopause, Mother-Daughter Wisdom, and Women’s Bodies, Women’s Wisdom.

Posted by admin | Filed Under Health, Medicine, Politics, AUTHOR INTERVIEW, PODCAST

Jocelyn Crowley | Fathers’ Rights Activist

April 4, 2009 | Leave a Comment

Interview with Jocelyn Crowley | Author of Defiant Dads [18:24m]: Play Now | Play in Popup | Download

Fascinating speaking with Jocelyn about father’s rights, and about her newest book: Defiant Dads. She not only inspired thought and great conversation, she started a flurry of comments on Twitter during the show! More about Jocelyn from her website:

Jocelyn Elise Crowley is an Associate Professor of Public Policy, a member of the Graduate Faculty in the Department of Political Science, and an Affiliated Faculty Member of the Department of Women’s and Gender Studies. She has written extensively on the topic of family policy, including her book The Politics of Child Support in America (2003). Professor Crowley has also written on the subject of voluntary associations in the United States, and has recently finished a book related to the fathers’ rights movement in America that was published by Cornell University Press in 2008. In addition to contributing to an edited volume on international fathers’ rights movements, she has published numerous articles in the American Journal of Political Science, Social Science Quarterly, Health Education and Behavior, Legislative Studies Quarterly, the Journal of Public Administration Research and Theory, Publius: The Journal of Federalism, Marriage and Family Review, Justice System Journal, Perspectives on Politics, Social Service Review, Journal of Contemporary Ethnography, Sociological Inquiry, and the Eastern Economic Journal. During the 2005-2006 academic year, she was chosen to be a Visiting Scholar at the Russell Sage Foundation in New York City. She spent the 2006-2007 academic year at the Department of Politics, New York University and the Social Indicators Survey Center, Columbia University School of Social Work.

Posted by admin | Filed Under History, Health, Motivation, Politics, AUTHOR INTERVIEW, PODCAST

Sharon Waxman | Loot & Hollywood

April 3, 2009 | Leave a Comment

Interview with Sharon Waxman | Author of LOOT [22:42m]: Play Now | Play in Popup | Download

Sharon is an incredible author, researcher, and gossip columnist! What a pleasure to chat with her about her diverse skills and interests, and most importantly about the amazing book LOOT! This is one of my favorite titles of the year, and I truly enjoyed chatting with Sharon. More about her from her website:

Sharon Waxman is an author and award-winning journalist, currently working on a book about stolen antiquities. “Loot: The Battle Over the Stolen Treasures of the Ancient World,” will be published by Times Books in November 2008.

Who ought to own the trophies of history, Western museums, or the countries that were plundered over 200 years? “Loot” takes readers on a journey to the countries where ancient civilizations began and to the great museums where their treasures now reside in a quest to understand the tug-of-war between East and West.

Waxman was a Hollywood correspondent for The New York Times until January 2008. Before joining the Times, she was a correspondent for the Washington Post based in Los Angeles, from 1995 until 2003.

As a long-time observer of the entertainment industry, Waxman’s is an influential and independent voice. She has covered studio sales and corporate mergers, the Oscars, the film festivals and the unusual personalities that make up Hollywood. She has taken readers deep inside the filmmaking and deal-making process, getting to know the key players and artists who make the movies. She is the author of the best-selling book, “Rebels on the Backlot: Six Maverick Directors And How They Conquered the Hollywood Studio System” (HarperCollins, 2005), about the emergence of a new generation of writers and directors in the 1990s, making landmark films in a corporate-run Hollywood.

Waxman began covering Hollywood for The Washington Post’s Style section in 1995, becoming the paper’s first correspondent to cover the industry from Los Angeles. She began her career as a foreign correspondent, and was sent on reporting stints to the Middle East during her years at the Post.

Born and raised in Cleveland, Ohio, Waxman attended Barnard College, where she studied English literature, then earned a Masters of Philosophy degree in Modern Middle East Studies from St. Antony’s College at Oxford University.

Having learned both Hebrew and Arabic during her studies, Waxman got her first real journalism job with the Reuters news agency in Jerusalem, covering the first Palestinian intifada in 1988 and 1989. At the end of 1989 she moved to Paris. While there, she covered the economic unification of Europe and the velvet revolutions in Eastern Europe as the Soviet Union collapsed. For six years she covered the culture, politics and economy of France and other parts of Western Europe as a freelance and contract writer, with frequent forays into Eastern Europe and North Africa. She wrote for a variety of U.S. newspapers, including The Washington Post, The Chicago Tribune, The Miami Herald, The Los Angeles Times and numerous other outlets, eventually landing a contract with The Washington Post. The Post then offered her a full-time position in a place she never expected to land: Los Angeles.

During her years in Hollywood, Waxman has become a frequent commentator on matters of movie and media culture. In 2000, she won the prestigious feature writing award for Arts & Entertainment writing from the University of Missouri. While at the Post, she returned to the Middle East on several occasions to write a series about Islamic culture, to cover the war in Iraq and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

Waxman lives with her family in southern California.

Posted by admin | Filed Under History, Travel, Art, Religion, Politics, AUTHOR INTERVIEW, Hollywood, PODCAST