Paul Doyle, Author of Hot Shots and Heavy Hits, Special Agent in Bureau of Narcotics

June 7, 2009

Dr. Kent: Welcome back to Sound Authors. My next guest on the show is Paul E Doyle. He served as a Special Agent, in the Bureau of Narcotics and Dangerous Drugs and also in the Drug Enforcement Administration. His book is called Hot Shots and Heavy Hit. Tales of an undercover drug agent. Can’t wait to chat about this book. Welcome to the show Paul E Doyle.

Paul Doyle: Hi, Good Afternoon Dr Kent. It’s a pleasure for me to be here a chance to talk with people who like writing and reading its good. So Thank You for having me on your show and letting me talk to your audience.

Dr Kent: Absolutely, so tell me about this book and your life in crime.

Paul Doyle: Well basically in a nutshell my book Hot Shots and Heavy Hits is my memoirs about my experiences as an undercover agent in the DEA in the 1970’s and that kind of sums it up. Its my particular story, I tell in first person its more of a worms eye view of a the everyday life of an undercover agent. And although its my story and my book it runs with every cop in the world who works undercover I get so much feedback one of the first promotions we did was in the DEA has an exhibit in Times Square and I spoke about the book, sold book over number months. And I get feedback from police officers all over the world actually who told me I hit it right on the head and of course speaking to audiences I also very happy to hear from people in recovery people in 12 grams have been addicted tell me you’ve hit this right you’ve nailed it Paul described it the heroin overdose and heroin highs being in these drug dens. You’ve told it like we’ve never seen it before so realistic, so I feel very good about that. It think its one story needed to be told. People often would ask me about my fears because I never talked about it. What I did I never couldn’t do a lot of things but basically I worked undercover in the Irish law of Boston. Familiar names with people like Whitey Bulger. I worked undercover with Italian Mob the Cosa Nostra, the Chinese Mob which is tong young tongs. Outlaw motorcycle gang and South American drug cartels. So I got wide range of experience in all these areas kind of begging to be told especially with people with whats going on and I got a chance to do this in I feel very good since the book been published. I’m working on a novel now based on a lot of these things.

Dr. Kent: What is the world you know you dropped all these things about the mobs and this world and that world. I most of us what we seen on CSI New York or on these television shows we seen about it. Tell us how realistic is this stuff. What was the real world like doing this work?

Paul Doyle: Its actually care, I’m glad you asked that it’s a lot of these programs very interesting very realistic to a point, but you never look down the barrel of a gun. AS I have many other officers and undercover agents have you really can’t get a get understand. I think that’s where I had the benefit of writing a book first hand. Other words I can tell you exactly what I was feeling thinking and what the other guy looked like and how a deal proceeded. And now what happened to very action packed story lot of fights, lot shooting, a lot of action, lot of drug undercover buys, and not all these actions. One of the others things people commented on my book for example Anita Shreve, she’s on the cover of my book, she writes the tight rope walk bet good and evil confronting violence from without and within and having to make spontaneous life or death decisions that seem light years away from that beautiful wife and baby nights called home. I’m proud I was able to convey that to someone like Anita Shreve, who writes in a totally in his mind but yet enjoyed the book and turn on tell audiences about it. So that’s one plain, Frank McCord initially I was tell about you and I known Frank and Penelope for number of years been. I feel like they’ve been more less very kind to me and adopted me into their family. I enjoyed it like to get with them on a regular basis, but basically my writing is to be as to be expected hot and direct except love and good humor and deep feelings unfortunate of the world and in my writing from my point of view as an agent. I’m not just a cop with search warrant locking these people up I’m literal with these people. I understand their feelings I understand whats good and bad about them what went wrong I look at addicts and junkies I saw the sorrow and sadness in the eyes in the mothers and fathers who lost their kids to drugs. I saw things first hand and as result I’m able to tell the big picture in a way most authors could never do. Unfortunate a lot of cops can’t because they’ve haven’t they didn’t sit down and write their stories in times not able to put into words I’m fortunate since I did this I discover I did have a gift for words in a way that some people don’t have so.

Dr. Kent: What I’m most fascinated about what you just talked about where Anita Shreve where she talks about where you being out in the middle of this violent world doing these crazy things from what we see in from what we see in reality this crazy stuff and then you come home to your children and your wife. For a lot of cops it is kind of the same thing kind of dangerous profession and after dealing with all this aggression you come home and you’re with your family. Talk about that for a minute.

Paul Doyle: Well most people don’t realize in today’s world of the undercover agent not only men but women working undercover. So I you stars in family your doing this kind of work they play such a great role its very very difficult from their other half going off to a completely different world and maybe not hearing from them for weeks or months at a time. Assuming different identities and facing the kind of danger they feel that they face while their sitting at home, not knowing exactly what’s going on. It’s quite strenuous on the family. I’m very fortunate I had I’ve been back to the same girl I met in High School and we’ve been married for 40 years I have 4 children that have grown up. One just going off to college. One married to a marine fighter pilot, she has 6 children. My other daughter married Christian, she has 1 child and then I have to thank my wife for what she’s done and sacrifices she faced and my children’s made. Growing up they didn’t know what I did and that’s part of the reason I wrote the book. That’s why I wrote the book not that I go off on tangent if I may. People always ask me How did you, What made you write why did you write this book? And if I can say it this was ground zero right after the attacks with NYPD on the search and rescue team. I cam home my wife asked me what it was like I couldn’t even explain what it was like so I said let me sit down and write some of my thoughts and I did. She read them and she started to cry and each of my daughters read same thing. Eventually what I wrote was made into an article and was in four national magazines that I get high praise for that depiction of what I saw and what I witnessed death and destruction. That point I decided after all these years undercover that I got to write something about that because at the on the pile with all the fires raging around in dark I think of only days prior to thousands of people alive and their dead now it dawned on me for the first time in my entire life that I had been a paratrooper or I’d been a drug agent and survived all these incidents this could happen to me. I could be dead in a minute then what would happen my kids; my wife would have no idea what I did. That’s when I thought about maybe putting that on paper some day and eventually I did and that’s what happened with the book.

Dr. Kent: And Tell

Paul Doyle: I hope I didn’t go to far.

Dr. Kent: No No I could talk to you for days about all these things but tell us a store out of this book kind of briefly like what’s a small world into this Hot Shots and Heavy Hits?

Paul Doyle: You know its starts off a young agent coming out of the narcotics academy and going to an office. And how it begins my first pot day on street. How we go on a raid and how they have me kick the door in because I’m the young new guy. I go on a heroin raid later on in night. Eventually the first experience I had was a textbook case with as federal agent you want to go up the ladder. What I did was I get these University of Boston by small amounts of cocaine ounce for like $2,000 I eventually with this case I brought it up to the level where first federal case first time crime figure Mafia figure. I was involved in this so I write it all in the book. Hand to hand sale bought sold so many chills cocaine that was big for a number of reasons. Number 1 I remember walking to the federal building in handcuffs and I said to him listen to Joe your our help yourself in drug school they teach to that to get people to cooperate and get information how police survive. He stop looked at me said kid let me tell you something I made the biggest mistake of my life today he said don’t ask me no questions I can’t tell you anything. He says I’m in enough trouble as it is. I tried that because he was the first guy who ever said that to me. He was the only guy in my entire career who never cooperated. He didn’t’ tell me a thing. In those days it was omit code of silence they wouldn’t talk. This particular fellow looked like someone’s uncle that turns out he had a reputation they called him the man who got away with murder because the last time he went on trial. He had one witness against him. Days before the trial a witness disappeared and they found the witness in the trunk of his own car with his hands tied behind his back, hog tied, his private parts in his mouth and pins in his eyes and that’s omerita that the code of silence in the work it out don’t mess with this guy. The young narcotic agent and I locked him up so that’s one of the one of the quick stories. My I guess time for another quick one?

Dr. Kent: What’s that?

Paul Doyle: Hello? Do I have time for another quick story?

Dr. Kent: Yes Please.

Paul Doyle: Ok there purest white heroin was coming into Washington early 70’s from Hong Kong Shanghai, it was called China White. WE couldn’t do anything about it. They was spreading it all over the country they were distributing it to all over out to Portland Maine. We couldn’t break it because we couldn’t understand the code. We had wire taps but so many different dialects the Chinese wouldn’t deal with anybody and then got a call from a Boston Police Officer who had arrested a hooker a young hooker from HighO housing project one of the projects that I’d grown up in. She was not only a heroin addict but she was in the house one of the Chinese geos. She offered to bring someone in. I was elected the guy; my new assignment for the next 6 months was nighttime in Boston’s combat zone China town area as a pimp. I established myself in eventually hand to hand by heroin from the heroin geos and we brought them down that’s another quick stories kind of things we did on a regular basis. You know assuming different things and story talks cases my book talks about cases all over from Boston to quite a few New York City and up to San Francisco. From most my expertise was from heroin and cocaine. I also brought down a LSD laboratory in San Francisco big in 70’s.

Dr. Kent: And now your own, we only have couple minutes left but your own background.

Paul Doyle: Ok.

Dr. Kent: I want to talk about that for a second because your story growing up in a tough part of Boston. Talk about that for a minute.

Paul Doyle: Sorry. I was an orphan at birth. I was adopted when I was 5 by the time I was 12 I’d lived in a dozen different places mostly housing projects and changed schools many times sometimes twice in one year, so its not hard to figure out why I gravitated to boxing. I was an amateur boxer I became the 1967 I was Heavyweight Champ. I got scholarship to Rockford Watkins University. I was about a graduate and was going to turn pro and the biggest tragedy of my life; my younger brother was killed in Vietnam. I put a stop to that sent me off in a new direction I joined the military. I served with second infantry division ten Special Forces. Then eventually I took an interview and started with the DEA this was a time when this was the 60’s and 70’s. Drugs, sex, Rock ‘n Roll time we were inundated with drugs and its what happening at the time so I wanted to be a part of it it. I wanted to do some good I was altruistic and that why I did what I did. So that’s basically it.

Dr. Kent: This been a real honor chatting with Paul Doyle and we’ll have to have you on again. This is a fun conversation I could talk to you along time about this stuff.

Paul Doyle: The honor was mine. Thank You.

Dr. Kent: The book is called Hot Shots & Heavy Hits tales of an undercover drug agent by Paul E Doyle. You can visit his website.

Paul Doyle: Thank You.

Dr. Kent: Website at pauledoyle.com. Thank You so much we’ll chat with you again soon.

Paul Doyle: Thank You very much Doc.

Dr. Kent: Alright we’ll be back after a little break with the third guest on the show his name is Jeremy Robinson. Come on back for that.

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